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Post by Village Idiot on Aug 5, 2008 21:22:56 GMT 10
Looking at the cost of new Ice Breaker hulls I am glad that I built my own boat. I am well and truely priced out of that market.
I suppose to a degree you get what you pay for, and the current World Champ does not mind his, but I think 16k sans rig could buy a pretty decent used boat in many other classes.
Off on a tangent, it is interesting to see that the Moths are trying to produce cheaper new boats to make things easier at entry level.
Also the new Laser prototype rig shows progressive ideas are even filtering through to the most stuborn of classes. Or is it just a gimmick?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2008 8:08:13 GMT 10
They do look pricy but that is $NZ - I think it translates to about $12.5k Australian. Mind you I've no idea what other people charge.
It's a very interesting point that you make, though. Moths have a bit of a problem in that they are heading well north of $20k for boats that are getting turned over constantly (I used to sail moths but would not go near them now - can't imagine how my wife would react to spending that kind of money on a flimsy toy every 6 months or whatever they seem to do!) Although, I think the cheaper boats more driven by the desire of one manufacturer to create a "one-design" version.
The up front cost is quite big, but in terms of $ per year of competitive life, though, the OK doesn't look too bad. As I understand it, Nick Craig's boat must be a few years old now - there wouldn't be many five year old lasers or moths at the front end of their world's fleets.
I think there are a whole bunch of trade-offs - do you have well made boats that last a long time but cost a bit more, or do you have cheaply made boats that need to be replaced constantly to stay competitive? On the other hand, if no-one ever needs to upgrade, there will be no secondhand market (which is probably more important for encouraging newcomers since few people ever want to start out with a brand new boat), so there needs to be some incentive for guys at the front to turn their boats over occasionally. It's very hard to get right, isn't it? If nothing else, a sensible minimum weight and reasonable rules on construction methods go a fair way to achieving it.
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Post by Village Idiot on Aug 6, 2008 14:27:41 GMT 10
Longevity is definitly a valid point. However, will it be a marketting coupe among those who cannot see past the $$$$?
If nothing else it may at least explain to us how the $ is justified.
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Post by aus729 on Aug 6, 2008 15:04:28 GMT 10
The new Kiwi hulls use epoxy, which is lighter and more expensive that polyester, and you have to use more. The boats Jason makes are still under $8000AUD, deck, hatches, traveler and bailers.
I think the best thing that has happened in the Class over the last few years, is that the top guys have purchased new boats. I don't believe that is has made them any faster, but it has made their older boats available for others to use, thus increasing the quality of the fleet.
At the worlds 2008
1st New Icebreaker
2nd Older Icebreaker 2003
3rd Jason King Delf copy
4th New German Delf copy (I think)
5th Jason King Delf copy
6th Jason King Delf copy
7th Jason King Delf copy
8th Jason King Delf copy
9th Old Danish/Swedish Delf copy
10th O'Donnell Timber (2003 I think was Nick's)
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Post by Village Idiot on Aug 6, 2008 20:31:25 GMT 10
Just a bit of shameless marketting there.  I do agree about the turnover of boats. It's all about he trickle down effect. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2008 9:43:25 GMT 10
The boats do look expensive as a one off cost....but they will last. My old one 502 was 10 years old when I got 3rd in Leba with it. In all honesty it is very hard to tell if my new boat is noticeably quicker. The rig made the main difference. The reason I got it was Trent offered me a price whereby it wasn't going to cost me much more ( or so I thought..  )to get a new one, plus it then allowed Trent to get a great boat. I got mine off Alistair as a bare hull with unpainted thingypit ( just noticed c%$k isn't allowed here  ), I got him to fit the bailers, traveller and pintles and did the rest myself. The cost for a boat in this state is NZ$11,700- see the Icebreaker website. The final cost by the time I brought a carbon tiller and tiller /extension, 2 rudders, a new mast, a beach trolley and fitted it out was in the region of NZ$17,000...bloody hell I've just added this up now! However Tors is expecting this to last at least 10 years ;D and with it being epoxy it shouldn't gain any weight. I liked fitting it out myself as you can have your own set up and do some things a little bit cheaper/heavier than the std set up Al does. One thing I did which was really good was shifting the hiking straps as far in to the centre of the thingypit as possible, this allows you to hike more straight legged which is better for your knees and also locks your body into the boat so every upper body movement transfers force directly thru the rig. Nice forum Andre!...... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2008 18:54:39 GMT 10
Just a quick correction.
Nick's boat was built in late 2003 and is not the one I won in 2002 with. Peter Scheuerl has that one.
the boats may cost a bit but they do last and if you have to buy a new laser every year to be competative in that class with depreciation every time you sell one to buy another the cost of an OK which will last for at least 10 years is not that bad.
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Post by AUS 750 on Aug 14, 2008 9:53:03 GMT 10
Even though I'm not in the league of the Icebreaker affictionados that have posted thus far, I'll add that my Icebreaker, circa 1982, is still competitive after 26 years of service. With updates to rig and gear, there's no reason for a good quality boat to last - certainly the design has remained popular and clearly competitive even within such a long period.
Now, if I was to add up approx 12-15 new Lasers in that time... a lot of money.
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Post by AUS 750 on Oct 7, 2010 9:46:58 GMT 10
Now is a great time to buy new Icebreakers from New Zealand. The exchange rate is extremely favourable making them a good option. They can be supplied finished to any requested level. NZ Icebreakers are undoubtedly the most successful design this year, with wins in the Worlds, Europeans, Nordics, Interdoms and the NZ, Swedish and Polish Nationals and second place at the Danish and German Nationals. Boats can be shipped individually or in containers of 3 or 4. Complete, ready to sail boats could also be shipped direct to the Interdoms in Melbourne at Easter with the Kiwi team, possibly with reduced shipping costs. For more infomation contact Alistair Deaves alistair@deaves.com+64 21 423 504 okdinghy.co.nz/icebreakerboats/index.php |
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)to get a new one, plus it then allowed Trent to get a great boat. I got mine off Alistair as a bare hull with unpainted thingypit ( just noticed c%$k isn't allowed here 
), I got him to fit the bailers, traveller and pintles and did the rest myself. The cost for a boat in this state is NZ$11,700- see the Icebreaker website. The final cost by the time I brought a carbon tiller and tiller /extension, 2 rudders, a new mast, a beach trolley and fitted it out was in the region of NZ$17,000...bloody hell I've just added this up now! However Tors is expecting this to last at least 10 years ;D and with it being epoxy it shouldn't gain any weight. I liked fitting it out myself as you can have your own set up and do some things a little bit cheaper/heavier than the std set up Al does. One thing I did which was really good was shifting the hiking straps as far in to the centre of the thingypit as possible, this allows you to hike more straight legged which is better for your knees and also locks your body into the boat so every upper body movement transfers force directly thru the rig.
